Saturday, February 28, 2009

Blood Mountain-Home to Unknown Creatures?

In Union County, near Blairsville, Blood Mountain was the sight of a battle between Cherokee and Creek Tribes for control of territory. The Cherokees won the battle, which was fought at Slaughter Gap between Blood Mountain and Slaughter Mountain. Both Slaughter Gap and Slaughter Mountain are called such due to the tragic fight between the two tribes. A visit to the area will reveal a Georgia Historical Marker that pays tribute to the historical nature of the place.

Bigfoot researchers contend that Blood Mountain is also the source of quite a few reported Sasquatch sightings. Some field researchers with the Bigfoot Field Research Organization have followed up on reports from the area, and they say that their files contain sightings from the area. Additional legends associated with Blood Mountain include a race of people who can be heard drumming. Researchers with the BFRO say that this is more than likely the wood knocking so common to Sasquatch. They say that since wood knocking is used as a communication tool among these animals to keep track of one another when they spread out foraging for food, the animals are probably doing this as they hunt for food on the mountain, a prime location for food due to its abundance of plant and animal life. The drumming that the Native Americans and other people have heard there was probably Sasquatch wood knocking. Researchers mention that their research in to the legend of the drumming people of Blood Mountain indicate that the drumming happens at night. To these researchers, this also fits neatly in to the characteristics of Sasquatch, as they are known to forage for food at night under the cover of darkness to avoid human contact.

The North Georgia Mountains have always been the location of mysterious sightings and strange occurances. Perhaps there is more to Blood Mountain than meets the eye.

42 comments:

Wren said...

The Cherokees and the Creeks fought Blood Mountain for the sacred religious reasons. The Cherokee’s held more belief in the Nun’ne’hi than the Creek. The Nun’ne’hi or "People Who Live Anywhere” were a race of Spirit people who lived in great townhouses in the side of mountains. Blood Mountain being one of the three major areas. There are many other well spoke of races that lives along and on Blood Mountain also, Yûñwï Tsunsdi', or "Little People”, Atsil'-dihye'gï, "The Fire-carrier”, De'tsätä. De'tsätä “once human, a boy who fled and became invisible”, Tsäwa'sï and Tsäga'sï “two small handsome mischievous fairies who sometimes help hunters”, Yûñwï Amai'yïnë'hï “Water Dwellers”.

Blood Mountain is not coated in blood but in sacred spirits and beings yes. Many will reveal themselves to those in need. But Cherokees tell that after the White man came and traders and gold miners tore through the area all these beings left the dwellings and have sense either left completely or gone to another location.

The Nun’ne’hi and Yunwï Tsunsdi' are fond of and will often play drums in the deep woods, this will echo out at times. Many say it is trees bending in the wind or birds pecking at holes, but it is the Nun’ne’hi singing and dancing and paying tribute to not only the earth but the creator. They are or were an extremely friendly race and never harmed others. It was this race that after the Blood Mountain battle cured the Cherokee’s of their war lust for a time.

All Native tribes/clans were not perfect and many practiced slavery in their own tribes/clans. Many went to war with others tribes/clans, but it must be said it was never out of boredom that wars were started. All tribes/clans went to war for an injustice either to a clan person or party, or a sacred item. Name calling and petty things were over looked or taken to the field of A-ne-jo-di (Stickball) or Di-ga-da-yo-s-di (Marbles). At a latter time I will explain these games fore they are not the marbles and stickball you think of today.

There is one other rare race of beings the Cherokees spoke of and that I have heard of “the Moon-Eyed people” these people were not able to see as good in the day light as they were at night, they were very tall pale eyed, and light of skin. Again predating Columbus, de Soto any written record of the White man being in the Americas. Many assumptions have been made from what the Cherokee people have said of the Moon-Eyed people. I guess until one is found we will have to go with what a whole people saw and recount and what a few offer as “what they really saw” in the end.

Caprice said...

Hey Prof!
That was VERY interesting!
This is the first that I've heard of the Sasquatch communicating this way. Have you heard of this before? Is this actually common?

Caprice said...

Hi Wren,
Your blog was interesting as well.
Is there evidence of the townhouses still? Made me think of the cliff dwellers in the Southeast.

Wren said...

Caprice,

Hey there, on your question about the Nun’ne’hi and their townhouses. By the late 1880's it was said that they had left the area due to the gold miners.

But my 2 great-great-aunts (both full blooded Cherokee), told me that they still use to gather wild berries and nuts in that area, and would talk with them on rare occasions. Being a peaceful easy going race, they were not happy with the land and mountain being pillaged as it was. So they made themselves harder to see and came forward less often.

I am sure though that if one was to get lost and with no malice within them, the Nun’ne’hi would find you and take you to their dwellings and feed you and give you shelter over night. And in the morning put you back on the trial that would have you find your way back to safety.

Often one of the Nun’ne’hi will take the shape of one person you know and trust so as not to scare you or make you worry. They are known for being able to read your thoughts, so if you encounter them think nice clean things ;)

Well one thing about the Bigfoot that the Cherokees speak of, is they did dwell in mountain caves or in or on mountains. The Cherokee belief is they rose up with the mountains and brother Bear.

The link between these two is of a Cherokee named Whirlwind who went to hunt for his clan for food (as they we starving) He saw a great black bear in the forest and shot him with his bow and arrow. The bear ran and as he ran pulled the arrow from him and threw it away.

Whirlwind kept shooting the bear and chasing after him, never knowing that this bear had special powers. After a time the bear stopped deep in the forest and stood and pulled all the arrows from his body and said "you cannot kill me", "It is of no use for you to shoot at me, come with me and I will show you how bears live."

By this point Whirlwind was frantic and scared and thought to himself "this bear is going to kill me" at which point the bear read his thoughts and said "No I will not hurt you". Whirlwind thought again to himself, "If I do not kill this bear how will I eat, how will my people eat?" again the bear answered him and said "I have plenty of food".

So Whirlwind followed the bear back to a cave in the side of a mountain, upon entering the cave it deceived Whirlwind fore it went so far back and contained a city the likes he had never seen before, all lived in by bears. He was told by his guide bear "This is not where I live, but we are holding a council here and you can see what we do."

The council of bears told where fresh nuts and berries and game could be found in a valley not far from where they all lived. As Whirlwind left with the black bear he came in with he was then lead to the black bears own cave. Once there Whirlwind saw no food at all and hunger was hitting him hard. The bear read Whirlwind's thoughts and sat on his hind legs and moving his paws brought forth paws full of chestnuts, huckleberries, blackberries, and finally some acorns.

For many moons, through the summer and winter, Whirlwind lived in the cave with the bear. After a while he noticed that his hair was growing all over his body like that of a bear. He learned to eat acorns and act like a bear, but he still walked upright like a man. On the first warm day of spring the bear told Whirlwind that he had dreamed of the Cherokee village down in the valley. In the dream he heard the Cherokees talking of a big hunt in the mountains. "Is my wife still there waiting for me?" Whirlwind asked.

"She awaits your return," the bear replied. "But you have become a bear man. If you return you must shut yourself out of sight of your people for seven days without food or drink. At the end of that time you will become like a man again."

A few days later a party of Cherokee hunters came up into the mountains. The black bear and Whirlwind hid themselves in the cave, but the hunters' dogs found the entrance and began to bark furiously.

"I have lost my power against arrows," the bear said. "Your people will kill me and take my skin from me, but they will not harm you. They will take you home with them. Remember what I told you, if you wish to lose your bear nature and become a man again.

The Cherokee hunters began throwing lighted pine knots inside the cave. "They will kill me and drag me outside and cut me in pieces," the bear said. "Afterwards you must cover my blood with leaves. When they are taking you away, if you look back you will see something."

As the bear had foretold, the hunters killed him with arrows and dragged his body outside and took the skin from it and cut the meat into quarters to carry back to their village. Fearing that they might mistake him for another bear, Whirlwind remained in the cave, but the dogs continued barking at him. When the hunters looked inside they saw a hairy man standing upright, and one of them recognized Whirlwind.

Believing that he had been a prisoner of the bear, they asked him if he would like to go home with them and try to rid himself of his bear nature. Whirlwind replied that he would go with them, but explained that he would have to stay alone in a house for seven days without food or water in order to become as a man again.

While the hunters were loading the meat on their backs, Whirlwind piled leaves over the place where they had killed the bear, carefully covering the drops of blood. After they had walked a short distance down the mountain, Whirlwind looked behind him. He saw a bear rise up out of the leaves, shake himself, and go back into the cave.

When the hunters reached their village, they took Whirlwind to an empty house, and obeying his wishes barred the entrance door. Although he asked them to say nothing to anyone of his hairiness and his bear nature, one of the hunters must have told of his presence in the village because the very next morning Whirlwind's wife heard that he was there.

She hurried to see the hunters and begged them to let her see her long missing husband.

You must wait for seven days," the hunters told her. "Come back after seven days, and Whirlwind will return to you as he was when he left the village twelve moons ago." Bitterly disappointed, the woman went away, but she returned to the hunters each day, pleading with them to let her see her husband. She begged so hard that on the fifth day they took her to the house, unfastened the door, and told Whirlwind to come outside and let his wife see him. Although he was still hairy and walked like a bear on hind legs, Whirlwind's wife was so pleased to see him again that she insisted he come home with her. Whirlwind went with her, but a few days later he died, and the Cherokees knew that the bears had claimed him because he still had a bear's nature and could not live like a man. If they had kept him shut up in the house without food until the end of the seven days he would have become like a man again. And that is why in that village on the first warm and misty nights of springtime, the ghosts of two bears--one walking on all fours, the other walking upright--are still seen to this day.

This is one of many handed down tales of a man that stands as tall as a bear but walks on two feet and carries himself as a man.

scooter said...

Wren,

De'tsätä

An more info available on this? If so I'd like to read an d compare to the legend El Quanil.

Thanks,
Scooter

scooter said...

I'm gonna be nice and not comment on Bigfoot.....yet. :)


Scooter

Wren said...

Scooter,

De’tsata was known for hunting wild birds with his blow gun and being very skilled with it. When a hunter loses his arrow he will ask “de’tsata have you my arrow, and if you have, give it back or I’ll scratch you” and it will appear if it is de’tsata who has taken it. This is the personal name the Cherokee’s gave the human boy that ran off into in to the woods to become invisible to avoid his punishment of being scratched.

De’tsata wishes only to be among the birds hunting and away from even his own people. When you have a flock of birds in an area that suddenly fly up it is because de’tsata has startled them in his attempt to hunt them with his blowgun. De’tsata has since become part of the “Thunder Boys” the “Little People” and the “Fire-Carrier”.

De'tsata is a diminutive sprite/spirit who holds the place of our forest. He only carriers memories of his human fear of “human punishment” of scratches, other than that he is now of the sacred people that live within nature.

Scooter having watched your post, I expect you to plow into any legends with a high degree of closed mindedness and far left field remarks. If you have the ability to ask questions though one would then think the next level would be to keep the mind open to absorb that information and see the angles into which a legend could be formed.

But then that would make me assume you could do that, and you know my stance on assuming, huh?

Wren

The Professor said...

Feel free to comment on Bigfoot anytime you like. Just be prepared for that barrage of scientific and historic information I have and will throw at ya!!!

I will expect a fully reasoned, analytical and thoughtful response to each piece of evidence.

scooter said...

LOL Wren, you're a funny one for sure.

I learned about El Qanil in a survey of the world's religions. I'm sure that anything I say or do will have no bearing on your beliefs and contrary to what you believe about me, I have an extremely open mind. ;) So maybe you could relax a little?

El qanil was know as the man of lightning and was/is an oral tradition in the Jakaltek Mayan life. It's believed he appeared when the Spaniards attacked Central Americans and struck them with lightning bolts allowing the Mayans to win some battles. I have no idea if it's true or not but it could be.

I was interested in if De'tsätä
had any similarity to El Qanil. It appears not.

What was or is the legend of the fire-carrier? Can you tell me about this?

As for Bigfoot, I certainly don't see any scientific evidence that proves its existence. But I guess it could exist. Call me a doubting Thomas if you'd like to be nice. :) but didn't they just have a bigfoot in a freezer?

I know it was a hoax - the freezer thing- but I don't feel much more for the validity of Bigfoot beyond that.

Wren said...

Scooter,

So far to date in my talks or debates or what ever you wish to call them with you, you showed very little open mindedness. Quick to judge, make rash statements and branding remarks, but open-minded? You will have to actually put forth an effort to show me this “open mind” you posses.

To have the ability to learn, one must open their mind to new ideas and new ways of seeing the world in how it came about, it’s stories came to be formed in written text and so forth. You’ve yet to take anything I have said before at face value, yet now you want me to believe you do and have always been open minded.

I take proof from both sides of everything before adding my input, be they good or bad. I have my beliefs yes, even if evidence points against my beliefs I will still follow the truth over my beliefs.

“So maybe you could relax a little?” I do not know why you must assume because I speak on subjects with some degree of self-assurance I am not relaxed. Honestly if I was any more relaxed I would need a bed to type from.

The fact that many races all over the world have sightings throughout history that match says something in and of its self. De’tsata, El Qanil, Bigfoot, Little People and so forth were not just started and formed in the Americas.

I know the bigfoot freezer was hoax. I can understand sadly why some would go to those lengths. The fact remains that people not just in this country have seen and have history of Bigfoot. All it takes is an open mind to understand and look into the history.

El Qanil has a striking resemblance to the Nun’ne’hi this is their history.

Nun’ne’hi: "The Spirit Defenders of Nikwasi".
Long ago a powerful unknown tribe invaded the Cherokee country, killing people and destroying settlements wherever they went. No leader could stand against them, and in a little while they had wasted all the lower settlements and advanced into the mountains. The warriors of the old town of Nikwasi, on the head of the Little Tennessee, gathered their wives and children into the townhouse and kept scouts constantly on the lookout for the presence of danger.
One morning just before daybreak the spies saw the enemy approaching and at once gave the alarm. The Nikwasi men seized their arms and rushed out to meet the attack, but after a long, hard fight they found themselves overpowered and began to retreat, when suddenly a stranger stood among them and shouted to the War Leader to call off his men and he himself would drive back the enemy. From the dress and language of the stranger the Nikwasi people thought him a chief who had come with reinforcements from the Overhill settlements in Tennessee. They fell back along the trail, and as they came near the townhouse they saw a great company of warriors coming out from the side of the mound as through an open doorway. Then they knew that their friends were the Immortals, although no one had ever heard before that they lived under Nikwasi mound.
The Immortals poured out by hundreds, armed and painted for the fight, and the most curious thing about it all was that they became invisible as soon as they were fairly outside of the settlement, so that although the enemy saw the glancing arrow or the rushing tomahawk, and felt the stroke, he could not see who sent it. Before such invisible foes the invaders soon had to retreat, going first south along the ridge to where it joins the main ridge which separates the French Broad from the Tuckasegee, and then turning with it to the northeast. As they retreated they tried to shield themselves behind rocks and trees, but the Immortals arrows went around the rocks and killed them from the other side, and they could find no hiding place. All along the ridge they fell, until when they reached the head of Tuckasegee not more than half a dozen were left alive, and in despair they sat down and cried out for mercy.
Ever since then the Cherokee have called the place Dayulsunyi, "Where they cried". Then the Immortals War Leader told them they had deserved their punishment for attacking a peaceful people, and he spared their lives and told them to go home and take the news to their people. This was the custom, always to spare a few to carry back the news of defeat. They went home toward the north and the Immortals went back to the mound.
And they are still there, because in the Civil War when a strong party of Federal troops came to surprise a handful of Confederates posted there, they saw so many soldiers guarding the town that they were afraid and went away without making an attack."

Little is really known of the “Fire-Carrier” there are some things the Cherokees will not face even in the light of day.

scooter said...

funny Wren that you are guilty of the same things you me accuse of.

You assume I don't have enough experience to make a value judgment of my own but in fact it is possible that I have more experience in life than you. What you see as confidence in your beliefs some may see as arrogance. But you go on believeing what you wish. I've tried to be nice to you recently but I won't again. You are a stubborn biased person no matter what you think of yourself. I'll be sure to not address you in the future.

I don't need any life advice from someone with as limited aperspective as you seem to have.

Please don't address me in the future and I'll do likewise. Asking questions about whatyou know about heritage is really not worth the effort.

Scooter

scooter said...

FWIW,

I believe Bigfoot, Sasquatch, or whatever you wish to call it is a hoax. It comes from human imagination IMO.
I place it in the same category as The Loch Ness monster, et al. and seems to be man's attempt to describe something that has no verfiable proof at all.

The Professor said...

Scooter,
Just a few questions here: On what do you base your conclusion that Bigfoot is a hoax? (Not the one in the freezer mind you, but the whole idea of Bigfoot?)
Also, what resources, books, evidence, or other things have you assembled to back up that position, or is it just a hunch you have?
Have you ever heard of Dr. Jeffery Meldrum or Dr. Grover Krantz? In addition, have you ever read the Gigantopithicus Blacki theories that seem to be gaining more and more momentum in the scientific community and are leading some former naysayers to say there might be something to this debate?
Also, can you prove that Bigfoot does not exist? If so, can you then prove you have never murdered anyone?

These are just a few questions I have to get the debate rolling.

scooter said...

lol Prof...

The old 'you can't prove a negative' thing, huh?

:)

I'll definitely get back to you on why and will check out the Gigantopithicus Blacki theories as well.

The Professor said...

Yes, one, because it makes sense. Two, because it gives one something to ponder.

As for resources that include the Giganto theory, I could recommend you check out my book on the Legend of Bigfoot in Georgia. But there are two problems with that. One, it does not come out until later this year, and two, I would be too guilty of pushing my "capitalist" side on you. :)

I highly recommend the works of Dr. Meldrum, Dr. Geoffery Bourne, and Dr. Grover Krantz. They deliberate the evidence pretty intensely.

Not trying to push the Bigfoot theory on you, just trying to get you to explore some other sides of the debate.

The Professor said...

So Wren and Caprice, I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on the Bigfoot idea. Also, Caprice, what did you think about the story that our friend told us Saturday evening about what happened to her in the woods of Henry County in 1960? She has me curious now. I think she was certainly approached by something in those woods.

Wren said...

See Scooter this is what I mean. With me you leave scathing remarks littered among your questions, expecting me to either become blond and blind, or a high strung attack response.

I simply come back with answers "you asked" and truth to your scathing "open mindedness". Then you tell me to relax on top of everything else.

So I did not applaud your ability to ask me a question, while embedding your remarks in your post aimed at getting a reaction out of me. If you wish no reaction while you lay your rash judgments or branding labels in with your questions, say so first. I will make an exception for you, and stop being so truthful and follow your roll more closely.

I told you once I can be sarcastic, I am full aware of my faults but you need to look into that mirror a lot longer before calling others out.

Have a wonderful day and a life blessed by the Great Spirit.

scooter said...

OK Prof.

Here we go for starters:

1. There is absolutely no empirical evidence that exists that indicates Bigfoot or the species you mention - Gigantopithicus Blacki - has ever existed in North America. Evidently there is a jawbone found in Asia purportedly belonging to a species Giganto.

2. As to the theory that Giganto crossed over the Bering Strait - if in fact it ever existed to begin with - the only supporting evidence I can find is that some in cryptology base their theory on oral tradition of native Americans who lived in the Pacific Northwest. Again, nothing empirical.

3. As to your prove a negative point, I don't really think that is a fair approach. Given the total lack of evidence of Bigfoot's existence, It would seem to me that it would be incumbent upon those who claim it existed to prove its existence, not vice-versa. Therefore I view the prove a negative approach flawed.

Let me state that I MEAN NO DISRESPECT in my post and will gladly buy your book whether or not you are a capitalist. :-)

Wren said...

Jeff,

I have to say that in going through history all over the world. The recordings made by many people from many different races, through various time periods. There is without a doubt at least in my mind a species of people that man calls “Bigfoot, Sasquatch, Yeti”. Over time, word of mouth may have distorted some of the truth, it still remains that all over the world this race of species have been documented and in some cases protected from the outside world.

The fact they are nature based and can and do elude capture, proves an intelligence beyond modern man’s ability to grasp and understand. Many native people over the world who have encountered Bigfoot, really do not fear this species, as they go out of their way to make sure they are left alone.

There is too much proof of it living a long time on this planet than not.

The Professor said...

No disrespect taken at all. I am glad you enjoy the posts. Keep reading and commenting. I don't mind a little debate here and there. Glad to hear you are going to buy the book. That is at least one, well two, I guess. I should really try to buy a copy for myself.

1. As far as there being no empirical evidence, that is incorrect. Keep digging. You mentioned the jawbone in Asia. There was other evidence, including teeth. There are a number of pieces of evidence that prove Giganto existed. Not many scientists at all deny that Giganto black did not exist.

2. If Native Americans (in their earliest form) crossed the Bering Strait, then why would it be hard to accept that other animals did not, including Giganto? Botanists tell us that plant life indigenous to Asia and Africa showed up in the fossil records of North and South America and that there is generally one explanation for this-the species of plants they found were brought here by those who crossed the Strait. I thought it might have been Pangea, but the remains dated AFTER Pangea. I don't think it is really a stretch to think that animals migrated along with humans, who apparently brought their plants. As most credible scientists say that Giganto existed, I think it is highly likely that he migrated too. If humans were able to adapt and change as the lines moved and lived on through the ages, then I am sure Giganto did as well. If you look deeply enough, you will also find that the eating habits and behavioral patterns of what people today call Sasquatch match very closely those said by scientists to be those of ancient Giganto.

3. The can't prove a negative approach is not flawed at all. It is just hard on those who approach a debate saying this can't be, or this is NOT. I am not trying to convince you of anything's existence-only the possibility.
If you will remember, there were many scientists and writers alike who said that there were no such things as primates living in the mountains of African and Asia, but there were. We call them Mountain Gorillas and Pandas today. I am not always predisposed to the idea that those believing in said theories must prove they are correct anymore than those who deny they are must prove they are correct instead. A basic tenent of argumentation is that both sides are required to prove their points of view. In that event, scientists who deny Bigfoot's existence at all have said that there are some pieces of evidence presented by Bigfoot researchers that they cannot refute at all. Therefore, the door is left open. As to what we will find when we walk through that door, I would probably be as shocked as you are.

Don't be so quick to refute those stories of Native Americans. Also, don't dismiss every report, sighting and story you might hear about encounters with unexplained phenomenon. While there are people out there who are seeking attention and do things (like lying) to get that attention, you can't discount what everyone of those people are saying.

To tell the truth, the Bigfoot and North American Ape theory is growing and gaining momentum out there. I never thought I would see the day when the History Channel would present the evidence for debate. But they have. I highly recommend, for purposes of debate that you check out a few books. May I recommend a few titles? Here they are in case you are open to them.

1. Gentle Giants-Dr. Geoffrey Bourne
2. Sasquatch:Legend Meets Science-Dr. Jeffery Meldrum
3. The Apes Among Us-John Green
4. Bigfoot! The True Story of Apes in America-Loren Coleman.

If you have any titles I have not read, I would love to check them out. I do have a copy of Greg Long's book on the Patterson/Gimlin film, but that was just refutation of one thing, not the idea of Bigfoot as a whole.

Thanks for the reply. Honestly, you don't offend me by disagreeing.

The Professor said...

Sorry, I had a mistype. There are not many scientists who deny that Giganto Blacki existed. Most do. Just wanted to clear that typo up.

scooter said...

Prof,

Thanks for the references, I will try to check out some of them.

I don't totally discount oral tradition BTW, I do follow the edicts of the ten commandments personally for instance, and I've no doubt that some oral tradition is accurate.

I believe that oral tradition that stands the test of time without being refuted should be considered. Im sure you as a history prof know more about the process of legitimizing oral tradition, it's just that I prefer historically provable information over it.

If I run across anything interesting that you didn't mention, I'll be sure to pass it along!

Thanks!
Scooter

The Professor said...

Well, there is something on which we agree...oral tradition that is. The best expert I can think of in terms of oral history and tradition is Dr. Clifford Kuhn at Georgia State University. You are correct. Oral traditions have to be weighed for different things.

scooter said...

Hi Prof!

You said:

"1. As far as there being no empirical evidence, that is incorrect"

Can you point me to the short list of info that shows empirical evidence of either Bigfoot or Giganto in North America? Or at least which would be the best read?

Thanks!
Scooter

The Professor said...

All of the books I mentioned have that evidence in them. However, the best one would be Sasquatch: The Legend Meets Science. I would start there, with the book not the DVD series. There is both. The book has much more in it that the DVD series. I would also email Dr. Meldrum at Idaho State University. He is a professor of anthropology there. He is a regular on Discovery, TLC, History Channel, and National Geographic. He usually responds to emails, although he has a pretty busy teaching and research schedule. He is the author of that book. I spoke with him as a source for my book, and that was about a year ago. He is one of the nicest people I have ever met.

Caprice said...

Hi Prof!
Did you say whether or not this type of communication between Sasquatch is common? This is the first I've heard of it, but I certainly don't claim to be an expert. It is intriguing.
As far as our friend's comments. My knee-jerk thought is that there was a man in the woods with a very hairy arm. Do you think it was Bigfoot? Does her experience match other eyewitnesses? Either scenario is scary!
Hi Scooter!
OOOH! A skeptic! :)
Okay, a Bigfoot has not been captured. That is what it will take to 100% convince you skeptics, and I am not 100% convinced myself. However, it IS difficult for me to learn of all the ancient drawings depicting large harry upright animals found across America and not wonder what those people were drawing. There are also THOUSANDS of eye witness reports (not all of these people are illiterate morons looking for attention), many of these reports are from police officers, park rangers, and hunters. What is an acceptable mathematical formula for working out the percentage you cull out for imaginings, lying, or a known animal mistaken for Bigfoot. If you can only accept 10% out of 1,000 as not falling under the above mentioned problems, you have 100 eye witness reports that are legit. There are also foot print casts examined by animal experts who claim that the prints are from a mammal - not a fake print for a prank.
Animal experts have also listened to recordings of animal noises recorded by scared homeowners hearing strange noises in the woods, and although the majority are noises from known animals, there are just enough recordings out there that the experts are not able to identify for me to raise an eyebrow.
So, although I'm not 100% sold on Bigfoot... when I consider the ancient "records", eye witness reports, recordings of noises, and casts of large footprints, I DO believe there is something in the woods that is unknown to us. It just could be Bigfoot.
What do you think? Can you really look at all this stuff and not think it's possible there's something to it?

Wren said...

You know something I find so very interesting here. You can give someone loads of information and even proof and facts. This will not sway them because they have a preconceived notion of what should be and would should not be. I am going to probably make a few people mad here, but this is my truthful side coming out. But once a person has been indoctrinated in Western religion all room for truths outside the Bible becomes mute.

Take for instance the oral history of all native people from the Americas to Australia, New Zealand. Prior to Christianity coming into a country and taming a people and converting them, all their histories and oral traditions were seen and called heretic. Once converted these stories were called flights of fancy from their primitive stages before God and Jesus saved them.

My Grandfather was a southern Baptist Preacher, I know the Bible from all angles, I refuse to quote it as a form of defense, as this was not what the written word was laid out for. But I do know the King James version, the Latin Vulgate version is not the original words. I mean over eras the bible was written in Greek, Greek Septuagint, Phoenician, Aramaic, Masoretic text, Koine Greek, Syriac Peshitta.

But what really needs to be pointed out here is this, I know for a fact that Cherokee do not have words for possessions, so a Christian White person will invent them and add them into translation. Losing or changing not only what is said but the very basic foundation of the meaning and content of the truth.

So oral history if written by man must be done unbiased and completely open minded to the person telling them of their history. Science can give facts but it can omit the most import things in its facts of history and proof, the truth!

If you have the basic truth and proof of people from different regions over the world from different times, talking of the same species of being, but calling it different names. Does it not then go to prove you have evidence of a real species that knows how to conceal and protect its self from the prying eyes of the world and science field?

I mean after all if the scientist gets their hands on a bigfoot what is the first thing they would do to it, if it were alive? Sure would not be to get to know and understand it. Like Native tribes all over the globe it would be classed sub species and treated lesser than what it really is.

The Bible was oral history passed down over time till someone finally wrote it down. It holds as much water as other native people's oral history besides the Jews on this planet. What makes it the be all and end of of proof?

None has ever been shown the proof, just told to believe it.

scooter said...

Actually parts of the Bible are oral tradition and some later parts are historically provable, there is a difference.

You mean we have dinosaur fossils in North America but not really any Bigfoot bones/fossils, yet they allegedly lived since the dinosaurs?


BTW Hi Caprice! :-) (percentages can be tricky!)

I think criticisms of archaeologists are valid often times. Anyone remember the Nebraska man? An entire species of man was developed and drawn from the tooth from an ape. I think even scientists often believe what they wish were true and often do so for various reasons, some being fame and notoriety. So, as far as I'm concerned it takes a little more than a jaw and tooth found in Asia along with a theory about Bering Strait passages to convince me that Bigfoot is running around in the mountains.

Wren said...

I have yet to see the proof of the Ten Commandments. Not a shred of physical evidence for them yet Christian man follows them blindly without blinking an eye. I’ve no problem with them, but they demand bucket loads of faith that one man climbed a mountain and spoke with God and during that time with no witnesses he wrote down the word of God. In the modern word we call this “hearsay”. Another none Christian race tells you a history based story and you dismiss it, I find that very hypocritical and closed-minded. Only one faith gets to have rights to it all on oral tradition alone? Extremely biased and one sided in any court, no matter how you word it, paint it or try to dance it in front of people.


Archaeologists have found not just remains but excrement remains that predate Clovis man and do not fit in with what the Scientist want man to descend from and what they believe man descends from. It only took a solar masking to still make a mass of millions to believe the Shroud of Turin is the real deal, even after carbon dating and archaeologists have been over it with a fine tooth comb showing it is not Jesus and it came form the 14th century. Its really a wonder that most of the finds and discoveries that are made make the news and airwaves with the closed minds of people and the Science community. After all disrupting the fine balance they have now with the Churches and Science world is really a very thin line and to add more to it would just break the very fibers holding it together. Man might just curl into a fetal position and revert to some infantile state if all their beliefs instead of truths were made clear in the light of day.

Hmmm yes I can see how areas covering from Asia, Siberia, Malaysia, Indonesia, Brazil, UK, Africa, Australia all claiming to have seen and having a long oral history in yeti are tricky percentages. After all they are full of people that I am sure do not subscribe to any one set of beliefs that in anyway shape or form would agree or go along with the Western Worlds ideals on Science, Math, History, Religion heck even politics. So by those percentages alone must surely make them in the wrong, and that is not even taking in the oral history.

When in doubt run to the security blanket and do not look and examine what may be another view or path to the same outcome. This is why certain people are not privy to sightings of certain things because their minds will not open enough to just accept that there are other ways and paths that the narrow one that hold as “the only one true way”

The Professor said...

Hi Caprice,
I don't know about the hairy arm thing. It is possible, and an eleven year old child would be frightened of almost anything in the dark in a wooded setting. But yes, what she experienced does fit the habits discussed among Bigfoot researchers, but it also fits what could be just a wayward man walking the woods scaring children. Since she did not see the face or body of the perpetrator, I guess we would never know for sure.

Scooter, good point about dinosaur remains in North America, and on the surface, it would sound as if that is a plausible argument. However, and I don't want to go too far with this since I really want you to read those books first, but you have to remember that there were literally millions of dinosaurs that roamed this side of the planet. Their remains are going to be more plentiful than a species of animal that we are discussing. I will give you one bit of information from those sources, but I really do want you to read them with an open mind. Scientists who have been swayed say that the Giganto could not have migrated across the Beiring Strait in large numbers, so therefore, the number of possible remains would be small anyway. Also, remember that scientists say we had millions of dinos, but the remains that have been found are very small in percentage compared to the number of dinos that were here. There are other reasons researchers give for the lack of bones and remains. Those sources have that material in them. I don't want to say anything much about it now because I would much rather you read those sources first, like I have, and then we can talk about the evidence presented. For further reading on why there might not be so many remains left, you can also check out the writings of Robert W. Morgan. He is still a pretty active researcher.

As far as Gigantopithecus Blacki, I want to make sure you are not misinformed on that. The debate over that issue now is not did it exist, but whether this was an ancestor of what could be the North American Great Ape. While the science on Giganto is still in its early stages, most anthropologists and primatologists do not deny its existence. In San Diego, California at the Museum of Man, they have several teeth and jawbones, which I spoke about earlier. Since you are a skeptic, I will give you the name of a scientist who studies Giganto but does not believe in the North American Great Ape. His name is Dr. Russell Ciochon of the University of Iowa. I had read about him while I was doing some research on Giganto myself, and lo and behold, the producers of Monsterquest on the History Channel use him as the opposing voice on their series on Giganto. The reason I throw his name out to you is to give you someone who has pretty much proven that Giganto lived but does not believe he migrated to North America and that there is no North American Great Ape. So at least you will know that science has pretty much settled on the existence of Giganto.

What I am debating, as well as people like Dr. Grover Krantz (deceased), Dr. Jeffery Meldrum, Dr. John Bindernagel, and Dr. Henner Farenbach who see the connection. The scientists that I just named above have examined thousands of pieces of evidence that have convinced them that there were descendants of Giganto here. I want to stop there because I want you to read those sources and then we can continue the debate. Also, when my book comes out, you can use it as sort of a map for the other references. One of the first chapters of my book includes some of the scientific possibilities for Sasquatch, and I have provided references for those theories. You can track those sources from there. If you still disagree after reading those sources, then so be it, but at least you will have looked at some of the evidence available.

You would be surprised at the scholarly level of some Sasquatch research. Yes, there are always those idiots like we saw in Clayton County, as well as others. But there are a lot of credible scientists, journalists, trained trackers and military personnel, historians, and even law enforcement officials who are part of good research teams. Jimmy Chilcutt is one former police investigator that comes to mind. He was involved with the Elkins Creek cast examination. (refer to the archives on my blog for reference on that one. It is in my book too, of course.) :)

The Professor said...

Oops, another typo. What I meant to say was what I am debating along with people like Meldrum, Krantz, Bindernagel, Farenbach and others is that there was a connection between Giganto and what could be the North American Great Ape (sasquatch). Sorry about any confusion that caused. I was typing so quickly I moved on without making myself clear. Thanks.

Caprice said...

Hi Prof!
Remind me to ask my question again when I see you so I can smack you in person for not answering it here!!!!!! :) It's okay, I can wait.
Back to our friend...
So there are many accounts of people being just touched by a Bigfoot creature? That's so odd! That Bigfoot would just touch someone. and then let them run off...
I believe it did happen, though (whether man or beast...)our friend doesn't fall into the lying category and she has some pretty specific details for her to be mistaking the arm for something else.
Scooter!!
Hi there!
Okay, yes, I do concede that scientists and animal experts are human and therefore prone to personal agendas, preconceived ideas, and downright errors!
... and yes, percentages can be tricky and I don't even know what percentage to use - however, my point was that even if you accept a small percentage of the reports as legit, you have something to think about - and you know that was my point and you totally ignored it and all my other fabulous points - come on - can you look at all the gathered information (eye witness reports, foot prints, recorded noises, and ancient records) and think that there is nothing to all that?
Someone mentioned the lack of remains - I've lived at my "hundred acre wood" for 15 years and have found only 1 bird remains, 1 squirrel carcass, and one dog skull - and I KNOW I have hundreds of these creatures around. I think the remains are out there, we just haven't found them yet - they are a bit smaller than dino bones.
To reiterate - I agree with you about not putting 100% faith in scientists and experts, however, when you consider the information about "something" out there from so many different sources, can you really say that we now know everything there is to know about every aspect of our world? There are NO new animals to be discovered? Oooooh! I really feel that I won this one!! :)
I'm feeling pretty good about myself right about now! :)

The Professor said...

Oh sorry about that, Caprice. Forgive me. They closed the college today because of the snow, so I am just here being kind of lazy, and I guess that spilled over to the blogging.

Yes, woodknocking is said to be a type of communication among these animals. I have never heard it in person, but I have recordings here on my home computer of lots of examples. Some are debatable. Others are pretty strange.

I agree with you about our friend. She does not sound like the lying type. I think something happened to her in those woods. As far as Sasquatch touching humans, it is a good possibility. However, most Sasquatch encounters reveal that the animals flee out of fear of humans. I would elaborate as to why, but I don't want to give away too much of my research that is in the book. There are certainly stories of encounters that were different, though. Remember, these are animals and will be territorial and defend themselves like any other. But most scientist that believe these animals are real say that they are more afraid of us than we are them-the same as we are told of snakes. But boy do snakes strike fear in the hearts of human upon sight??? I would imagine what our friend encountered would too. However, as she described her encounter to me, it reminded me of the stories I have been told and found in databases and prints that smell of curiosity, the animal that is, not the human. From what I understand, these animals are more gentle with women and children, whereas men are a different story. But there I go, giving away too much from the book. Wren, can you give us some examples of possible woodknocking communications that show up in Native American stories, specifically Cherokee? That might be an interesting debate.

I really appreciate the interest all of you have shown in these topics. I know Scooter thinks we are picking on him, but I certainly am not. His skepticism is healthy for us. I appreciate his side of the story. I just want him to read those sources and then see what he thinks. Perhaps he will even come to the book signing at your store, Caprice. I might even autograph it for him.

Caprice said...

Hi Prof!
About Scooter, heck yea!
I enjoy a healthy debate too.
Skeptics have there place in our world! :)
Was I rude?
Was my victory dance too much?
I was really teasing.
Maybe I should wait until I know him better before I start teasing?
... and Scooter hasn't replied yet to my post - my victory dance might have been premature - but I don't think so...
Come on Scooter, I'm ready for ya.
I sincerely am interested in your point of view. I know how I think, I like to hear other points of view on subjects - I guess we all do, that's why we participate in blogging. I guarantee that when I ask you a question it is because I am interested in your answer. I do enjoy jocularity, though...

Caprice said...

Hi Prof,
I cannot believe you took away my change to smack ya! :)
Thanks for the answer.
This knocking does not sound like woodpeckers?

The Professor said...

If that is a woodpecker, then his bill would have to be as big as a boat paddle.

This knocking is a loud sound that is produced by large pieces of wood or logs being pounded heavily against the trunks of trees, hence the term knocking.

I have heard lots of woodpeckers and if I ever encounter one big enough to hold a bill that would make that loud of a sound, then I have another book to write.

Caprice said...

HA!
Okay, so it doesn't sound like a woodpecker.
I would sure like to hear that.
It does make sense that they would communicate in the woods like other animals.

Wren said...

Woodpeckers make that little pecking sound, this is more like a steady drumming sound a nice rhythm akin to native drums.

Only with real big hands used to beat on really big drums aka tree trunks.

It could be a beaver though using it tail, trying to take a tree down, but then is there a large mass of water near by? Come to think of it to make that amount of noise it would need to be at least up to 10 beavers having one heck of a hen party to make that kind of beat, so scratch that :P

I am gonna stick with the Tsul 'kalu though as they are really good at drumming and their hands are known to be just uber huge!!

Wren said...

Just read all you had written Jeff,

Will give you all I have heard through oral history and from myself. Not a problem and do not mind anyone not agreeing with it.

Scooter I would not mind, but he has made a it a personal thing with me to implant snide and rude remarks and gets himself into a snit if I return the favor. The man needs to learn to take what he gives because the real world will not let him just walk all over everyone and not smack back.

In all the Native tribes/clans in the Americas drums were played not to just signal events or wars, but to communicate with Tsul 'kalu.

Because most tribes/clans knew their nature was not hostile they knew to ask before moving into their area, so the drum was used. Tsul 'kalu would answer back with rhythmic drumming on the trunks of trees. Some times these talks would last long into the night/morning.

The places that Tsul 'kalu lived/live were most often the places the Cherokee fought hardest to keep the White man from.

In Mountain areas you will hear a rhythmic metallic beating instead of drum like sound from forest or woods. Tsul 'kalu are known for their love of sound and they do tend to have a leaning toward the female voice as it is more soothing than a male voice, but with the Cherokee's only the male's played the drums.

So maybe they knew when the drums were being played the men were otherwise engaged and the women would dance and talk with them. Tsul 'kalu look out for and are known to protect, they only run when they sense from a person ill or masked emotions.

Traditions says that Tsul 'kalu (Bigfoot) is able to hear and pick up on others thoughts (be they animal or human). SO if they feel you mean them harm, they will run. If you mean them no harm and offer them safety, you might find yourself surrounded by them and safe.

When you walk within their living area you always speak with respect to not only where you might think they would be standing but to the ground which is under your feet, the trees, everything. Because you are in essence in their home, treading on their carpet, breathing their A/C. You give them thanks for being able to do that and you leave it the way you found it.

Know their language and speak it openly and loudly when you cross their threshold. You will be surprised when they step forward out of the forest to greet you.

The Professor said...

WOW! That is interesting. I need to sit down with you and record some of these stories. Also, if you don't mind, can you give me some references on any books or such, other than the Mooney book, which I have, that might have some of these stories in them?

Wren said...

Sure just make sure if you name a time and place you turn up this time is all ;)

You need to understand from a small child my mother's mother lived with us, she taught me of our lineage, taught me to read, write and speak my language. And she told me all the oral history that was passed down to her. Our original ancestor who was captured in N.C.

All of my Cherokee lineage come from outside of Rutherford N.C. and were slowly chased/moved down through Tn into the north Ga. mountains where they remained till the Cherokee removal.

I have read some of Mooney's work but you need to understand this. The Cherokee language does not contain words like "mine, my, yours, ours" or "the, and, is, it, of" to many Native is basic and may not posses intellect. I can assure you though that is not the case.

Cherokee encompasses on a much higher level than what you and I are now. They use fewer words to do it is all. I trust Native writers over white writers who have lived among natives and then written. For the main reason a native will write what is being said. A white writer will write what they think is being said in English. This makes everything so much more complicated than it should be.

So any time you want to talk I will be glad to help you out as much as I can with all that has been passed on to me.

North Georgia Bigfoot/Sasquatch Research said...

Wren,

My name is Matt Pruitt, and I am a friend of the professor, and a field researcher with the BFRO. I would very much like to speak with you about the Tsul Kalu stories, if you're interested. I don't know if you still read this blog, but my email address is northgeorgiabigfoot at gmail(dot)com.